Children and boundaires Options

[chooselife]

Tonight I discovered right on bedtime that the twins had taken D11's jewellery box and shared out it's contents - earrings, etc. I noticed that twin2 was trying to hide something underneath her doona and just happened to find it.

I wasn't angry I just explained that you don't steal things from others and they already no the rule not to go into the big girls room and they need to always ask first if they want to borrow something to look at. This has been a rule for a very long time.

Twin2 has been home sick with D11 and has spent time with her during the days as they both have chicken pox and are home together. Presumably she's seen the jewellery box.

Anyway, they promptly started crying and carrying on about the fact that I reclaimed the jewellery and box for D11. I explained that what they've done is serious and that I would speak to them about it in the morning. That they needed to go to sleep now.
But they are NOT going to sleep - twin1 continues to go on and on about it, screaming for me - saying I hate her (she's been saying this a lot lately - that everyone hates her - she is difficult behaviourly and frequently tantrums and does the wrong thing even after she already knows she's done the wrong thing!! after she's been repeatedly asked to NOT do something.. she does it and then says she doesn't care, etc. eg placing drinks on the heater! or not putting things back into the fridge after she gets them out - not asking first if she can have something to eat or drink and just serving herself large servings of yoghurt! tantruming if I say no about having a treat or icecream - I don't refer to things as treats - that's a word used by the X.)

She is now still crying and carrying on - and twin2 has managed to settle herself off to sleep despite being upset about being caught. Twin2 has asked me back into the room on 3 more occasions and wanting a bandaid (unnecessarily) for this - or another drink of milk as the first one got warm!

I have said if she can't settle down and stop the drama/noise then I will have to consider confiscating the little dvd player she uses in her room and do a week off the tv - (if I say no tv for a day, she doesn't even flinch@! she says she doesn't care.)

I really don't know how to manage twin2 anymore - she immediately starts wanting her father when she gets into trouble for things - and stealing from the big girls room is a big thing.

The problem is I don't like the way I'm starting to feel towards her. I have had to walk out of her room as I've started to become really angry about the way she behaves..... so I can calm back down and then go in again later!

[nowheretohide]

I think it's normal to feel frustrated and angry toward even a child if they are acting in a way that is frustrating and just plain maddening. It's how you handle those feelings that matters, and sometimes walking out of the room to collect yourself until it passes and you can reapproach with a clearer head and not in anger is all you can do. It's better than lashing back at and saying or doing something in anger that you will regret and may just make the situation worse.

I don't have any advice, but siblings boundary violation and stealing was a huge issue for me, and my mother either did nothing or basically encouraged it, and as the child who was being violated, I would have given anything to have a parent stand up for me in any way (of course, if I had stolen something, I woulda gotten the whatfor!).

Even though the tantrums sounds bad - she'll get over it, and that's all it is, a tantrum, and the best thing to do sometimes with a tantrum is to walk away and let it play out. When they scream they don't care what punishment you give, they are testing your boundaries. They do care, but it's a defense - saying they don't care hoping you won't bother to follow through with the punishment if you think they won't care about the consequences.

[frenchfries]

((((CL))))

Kids know all too well how to push our buttons. Like NWTH said, it's perfectly normal that you're feeling angry towards her right now - of course you are! I think going out of the room is a very good punishment - it sounds like she's trying to sort out a lot of stuff, and get attention - by yelling you're just reinforcing the negative stuff she's doing.

I would definitely keep to the punishments you've threatened - I think that's the most important thing we can do - make a punishment stick, so that the kid realizes that their actions have consequences.

I would NOT answer her requests - tell her it's bedtime, and especially if she's going to act the way she is - mommy is NOT AVAILABLE (I know how hard it is to listen to that...).

I'd also see if there's a way you could spend some one on one time with her when she's in a good mood - I know how hard that is with 4 kids (and twins ) even just sitting with her on the couch for a few minutes - just her.

Good luck. Kids are hard enough in the best of times - when they're stressed - and know they can play parents off of one another it's even harder. I think I'd also say that time spent with Mommy or daddy is not negotiable. Later, when she's older and pulls that, maybe. But I think it's much better for everyone if you just say that since mommy + daddy are having problems, the time you spend with each one is something YOU decide. Maybe someone with more experience in that can chime in.

[V. Dentata]

Oh, CL, my son does this a lot--the tantrums, then saying he hates me and wishes he could go live with his dad. This is when he's in trouble or when he has some chore to do around the house that he doesn't want to do. I mostly ignore it. Sometimes I just tell him: "Well, you live with me and are going to for a long time. You and I are just going to have to figure out how to get along." I won't tell you all the things I am tempted to say. Oooo, I have to bite my tongue hard not to throw the truth about his father in his face. But I don't.

As for helping themselves to food, that's harder for me. On the one hand, I want them to ask. On the other, I think it's a good sign that they are capable of taking care of their own needs to an extent. If it's something important to you, maybe there could be a small consequence. As for being hungry at bedtime-- I'm TRYING to remember to have a bit of snack time before it's time to brush teeth. That way, I know they aren't really hungry 15 minutes later when they are in bed.

Remember, positive reinforcement works best of all, so try to reward them for doing what you want them to--maybe points toward an outing or special treat for going to bed without drama every night in a week.

I've noticed that as my kids are older, they are growing out of the tantrums a bit.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[chooselife]

It hurts when they say, 'I want to go to Dad's' in reaction to you trying to set a boundary or enforce discipline - or whatever. They know at Dad's they will have different rules - and more likely to get their way (that's in my case!).

Tonight Twin1 was so much better in going to sleep - she has been misbehaving all week - and I'm afraid tonight is Thursday night.
If X receives the letter from the lawyer then the kids are going to his place at 9am Saturday instead of when X picks them up on Friday evening (normally at 6:45pm or later)....

I'm actually very scared about this and setting the boundary. Thankgoodness the twins have a disco birthday party to go to from 4:30pm to 6:30pm and then we have been invited to another friends house. The twins will be very tired - but I'm going anyway, so I won't be at home - so there won't be a scene with the X. The lawyer has advised if there is a scene with the X then I am to ring the police - and I'm scared of that aspect.

I think I will need a copy of the letter - so I can show the police that he isn't to have custody based on neglect of the kids and that proceedings are in order. Or something? I haven't even been advised any further than 'ring the police' - not what I should say.......

I just know he wil ljust lose the plot when he reads that letter. He also paid the money for the kids educational / medical expenses on 28th July - instead of 19th July. late again. But at least he paid it.

[frenchfries]

Good that you have somewhere to be when he 'should' be there, so you don't have to deal with that! It stinks, the stuff we have to do to deal with these guys, and it feels wrong - because in any 'normal' situation, it's probably the exact opposite of what you would do.

You're a good person, and a good mom to those girls. Keep reminding yourself that it's HIS actions that have forced you to set these boundaries.

(((CL)))

[chooselife]

You're a good person, and a good mom to those girls. Keep reminding yourself that it's HIS actions that have forced you to set these boundaries.

(((CL)))

I'm just scared he will come straight back at me about my care of the girls in some way - that I haven't been caring for them well enough or something. I'm not sure how he will react.

It is terrible that I have had to do this - but it is based on his actions - well his neglect really. The impetous was him not giving the flixotide again - and Twin1's symptoms worsening, again - after I had just gotten her right again. but all of the other things (including the medication thing on and off) have been happening for a while and I've been tolerating it for too long. I have documented things - but still, I am scared.

[chooselife]

I am so sad.
I feel so sad because of what I've done.
I spoke to him last night - he rang at about 6:20pm - and D11 answered the phone as I had stupidly left it in the car while I went inside to pick the twins up from their party. She spoke to him - he told her soccer was off for the weekend (he must have read his emails as he got that one) .... but then I spoke to him and he said where were we, it's his weekend with the kids. I explained that he was to pick them up at 9am - as it's explained in the letter that was sent to him today.
He denied getting the letter... and was angry, saying he wanted to see his kids, and where were we....
I just said he was to pick them up in the morning at 9am andI hung up.
He sent an angry text saying he was going to tell the relationships centre that I am in breach of my parenting agreement.
I am a little scared... but I have a lawyers support - and basically he himself has been in breach of the agreement - in that he didn't do what he was supposed to do with the financial aspect.... (which is also mentioned in the letter).

9:10am this morning and he isn't here to pick them up - so I text him, you were supposed to pick them up at 9am, where are you.
he rings me and tells me I'm psychotic, that he has stuck up for me all these years...that I've finally lost it,.....
that he was there last night at 6:10pm to pick up his kids and I wasn't there. ...
I say you received a letter yesterday saying you were to pick thekids up at 9am.
and he asks why...
and I said because you aren't giving medications when you are supposed to and not putting them to bed properly (or something like that I said)....
he then said, you've lost it, you're psychotic......
I just cut in and said 'if you aren't picking them up then I will drop them down to you.'

So I got them ready and took them down - but I didn't get there until 10am. He rang me at 9:45amsaying 'it's 10:00 where are you, you said you were dropping them down....
So I get there, and drop them off, and I had printed a copy of the letter and put it in the bag, and said it was there...but he didn't even want to look at it, I explained that the lawyers had told me they had sent it to him yesterday and as far as I was aware he had received it. he rolled his eyes at me.
I explained about the kids medications - twin2 is on an iron supplement as she is anaemic (I found out during the week) and said for him to give Jess her flixotide....
he said he was really angry with me and shut the door in my face while I was then trying to say something else.... the door hit me as I was still standing on the verge/step.

I've been home and crying since. I feel absolutely terrible. My friend says I should be feeling good as I've stuck up for the kids... but instead I feel absolutely terrible.

[Tango]

How's it going sweetie?

[chooselife]

Hi Tango, thanks for looking in on me
I'm sort of ok, but sort of not - you know..
I had a job interview today for a new job - looks promising - better pay - longer travel.. still flexible hours - which is good.
D9 had her play tonight and it was so much fun! X was there - he found us at the end. He didn't talk much to me but fawned over the kids.. he didn't make eye contact with me at all much.
I'm sorry but he does it to me again - I'm still very attracted to him. I hate this. and I've been sad ever since - he's very angry with me because of the lawyer letter. I'm feeling terrible still.
Although i haven't heard anything from him. .... he knows that one of the twins had an abdominal ultrasound this week - and he hasn't asked anything about how she is at all.... but turns up to watch D9's performance.. to me it's like D9 is his favourite or something. He helped her more on her project when she and D11 had school projects to do. It seems.........

I didn't know he was going tonight - he doesn't keep me informed about if he's going or not. He questioned why D11 wasn't there - she has her soccer training until 7:30pm, but he doesn't remember that - despite me having a google calendar for him to check online about all the kids activities.... I just wish he hadn't been there - it would have been easier. I'm reminded again of what I've done with the letter, and what he has been doing with the kids.... it was almost like he was a stranger to me. He was in his work suit, no tie.

I am starting a Womens Choice and Change group tomorrow night - (having some trouble finding babysitters) - it's for women pre/post domestic violence... this is the blurb from the pamphlet...

If you are in, or have been in an abusive relationship and think that:-

• no-one understands

• it is your fault

• you are different from other women

• you are alone

• the situation cannot be changed

then this group may be useful to help you to realise that -

 other people can help and understand

 you are not responsible for the control or abuse of others

 many other women have the same experience

YOU ARE NOT ALONE
CHANGE IS POSSIBLE

We ensure security and confidentiality.

[Tango]

I'm really glad to hear you're joining that group. I think it will help you to share, IRL, with women who have been similarly abused.

I'm sorry but he does it to me again - I'm still very attracted to him. I hate this. and I've been sad ever since - he's very angry with me because of the lawyer letter. I'm feeling terrible still.

I'm reminded again of what I've done with the letter, and what he has been doing with the kids.... it was almost like he was a stranger to me.

Can I ask you something? What, exactly do you feel terrible about? You keep saying you feel sad, and terrible, but I'm having a hard time understanding why. Do you feel apologetic towards him?

I'm not trying to challenge you with any of these questions, just trying to get a better understanding of where your head's at in relation to him.

[chooselife]

I feel like I've betrayed him.
I feel like I've stabbed in the heart - after he was trying to be nice and suportive towards us on that day when the kids had the chicken pox. I have a feeling he was trying to reconnect with me, us again... and I just rejected him and stabbed him by organising that letter with the lawyer.

I feel like I've destroyed everything - I feel like it's all my fault.
That's what I'm feeling.

I feel sad, terrible.... that I shouldn't have left.
I need to remember what happened, what was happening. There are times I feel so confused still now - that it wasn't as bad as what I thought - that I've made a mistake by leaving.

This is what I'm taking with me to the course tomorrow night.... my feelings in this regard. The guilt, the self doubt.

The sadness - the loss.

[Tango]

I feel like I've betrayed him.

OK. What about you? Do you believe he's betrayed YOU?

I feel like I've stabbed in the heart - after he was trying to be nice and suportive towards us on that day when the kids had the chicken pox. I have a feeling he was trying to reconnect with me, us again... and I just rejected him and stabbed him by organising that letter with the lawyer.

Perhaps he WAS trying to reconnect honey. But if so, and he IS an abuser, then it's just a classic, typical move for an abuser. His motives are FAR different than what he would have you believe. He doesn't like it when you're slipping from his control. It makes him uncomfortable. So he is going to use whatever tactic he needs to in an attempt to regain that control.

I feel like I've destroyed everything - I feel like it's all my fault.
That's what I'm feeling.
I feel sad, terrible.... that I shouldn't have left.
I need to remember what happened, what was happening. There are times I feel so confused still now - that it wasn't as bad as what I thought - that I've made a mistake by leaving.

This is what I'm taking with me to the course tomorrow night.... my feelings in this regard. The guilt, the self doubt.

The sadness - the loss.

I don't know your story in any kind of detail, but just what you've shared here sure sounds like classic abuse to me. If that's the case, then recognize that even though you've left, YOU'RE STILL BEING ABUSED. How do I know? Because of what you said above. You're still being manipulated, controlled, dominated. He's still attempting to influence you, sway you in whatever way he wants or needs to. That's what he gets off on, that control gives him a sense of power, and he needs that power, it's like a drug to him.

Whatever loss you're feeling, I'd venture to say it's the loss of the dream you had of a happy life together, the loss of the person you THOUGHT he was, the loss of the love you THOUGHT he had for you.

In his own way, I'm sure he does love you. But he doesn't love you the way he portrayed it. That's the pretend part. The way he loves you, the warped way he loves you, is by dominating and controlling you.

I hope you found the course productive.

[chooselife]

Yes I do feel like he betrayed me, tricked me, lied to me, didn't have my best interests at heart .... financially duped me, used his legal knowledge to trick me - he tricked me out of my rights as a wife and mother - yes. But something happens and I forget or my brain seems to minimise what it was exactly - or I can't quite pin point it well enough - and if challenged I feel I wouldn't be able to explain it well enough for people to believe me. so then I feel like the one that's lying or overexaggerating - or feel it can be twisted back onto me - that all I care about is the money - which is so not true. He did some of it in secret without my knowledge.

But it's strange that feeling - where I feel I need to remain loyal to him, despite everything - I think in some ways that's why I haven't felt that desire to want to meet anyone else... I'm still being loyal to him. I also sometimes defend him to others - that he isn't all bad... that he does good things, and when I say what the good things are - I hear people go , 'oh, yes, that's a nice thing for him to do....'
but then I feel ike saying, oh but you don't know who he really is.... he did such and such, and this and that....

I find it very strange what my brain does - one minute I feel this desire/urge to defend him, and then feel the need to give examples of why he's such a bad person....
I don't understand this part. or how to explain it to others...

[chooselife]

PS the course looks to be like the course I did back 4 years ago when I moved out of the house with the children. They are revisiting the cycle of violence, red flags, etc and there are about 9 women there doing it including me. Some younger - variations in the stories, some older....

anyway,